• Kevin Green

#13 - MONDAY DRIVE - The Power of Vulnerability, Mental Fortitude & Digging Deep To Truly Understand

Unknown Speaker 0:00

For this week's Monday drive, I dive into an incredibly insightful conversation with just come on, Gil, just come on who goes by jazz to her friends and family is such an inspiration. She's an inspiration because of the things she's accomplished already at such a young age, her self awareness to know the direction she wants to take her life and self awareness to know the things that can take her off course. And the toolkit she has to help her get back on track. With so many aspects of her life. I admire her vulnerability, which at the same time can be seen and defined as courage to acknowledge what things about herself she feels she needs to focus on, and work on them, and how she sees being uncomfortable as the way to really finding out who you truly are. Jazz is so thoughtful, so introspective, so intelligent, and I'm so glad I'm able to share a conversation with you guys today.

Unknown Speaker 1:05

Welcome to the fit united radio and Podcast where each episode we aim to bring fresh, relevant fitness and health related news content and interviews to help you reach new heights and ultimately become your best and finish sounds. Alright guys in three, two and one. Let's go.

Unknown Speaker 1:35

Alright guys, so very excited to introduce you to today's guest just kamo Gill she's a good friend of mine and a member here at iron alley gym a little bit about her. She finished high school a year early finish undergrad and four and a half years at McGill University in Montreal with a bachelor's of science and pharmacology. She's now in her second year med school and Australia. She's studying at University of Queensland in Brisbane. Back home here she was competing in powerlifting. She did two meats in the past two years. And now that she's in Australia, she's the transition or training for multi sport events now, so she did a sprint distance triathlon. And she's now gearing up for half Ironman later this year in her VBA. So, so happy for I'm so glad I could share this conversation today with you guys. He's just an inspiration. She's experienced so many different things already in her life. And I really hope that you guys can take something out of it. Please share with a friend family member. Super easy to do it. Hope you guys get something out of this one. I want to say thank you to this episode's sponsor fit track. Fit track is a Health app company that is disrupting the health and fitness industry right now. With their smart scale and smartwatch. They provide you with personalized information that is essential to helping you achieve your fitness goals. Now I get it as a personal trainer I know a scale can only tell you so much and just looking at your weight is not the best in indicator of your health. But the track deira scale is different. using advanced dual bioimpedance analysis technology, you were able to track 17 metrics that helped you get a better understanding of your body's composition, sinking it with the fifth track app, the fifth track daris scale tracks measurements such as muscle mass, fat, mass, bone mass, even your hydration levels, and you can see your progress over time. The scale even syncs up to Apple Health and Google Fit. Another great feature is that you're able to create multiple users so that you and your family members can share the scale and track your own individual progress. Now, how cool is that? That this scale even has infant mode, all right, as your little one grows, you can track and monitor their health as well. My son Cruz is now nine months old, and his first few weeks he wasn't gaining the amount of weight as fast as we would have liked. Now this would have been much easier to track if we had the fifth track dare scale at home. Fit track also has a wearable smartwatch called the Tria tracker. It's got everything you need and nothing you don't. As a smartwatch, of course you can receive call and message notifications. But the tree tracker is an all day wearable that tracks your activity, heart rate, and the seven different sport modes depending on the activity you're participating in. You can change music from the watch while you're on a run. You can even use it to take control of your camera and take that all important selfie, it even monitors your quality of sleep. Now on top of all of these features, here's the best one. It has a seven plus day battery life. Now a week without charging will will really allow you to track your activity and sleep on interrupted. Now having the fifth track daris scale and a tree a smartwatch is like having a one two combo and helping you achieve your health goals. What makes the fit track products different than the rest is the impressive quality of the products for such an affordable price point. Fit track believes in their scale and watch so much That they have a 30 day risk free trial period. So if you decide fintrac isn't for you, you can get a full refund. No questions asked the even cover the scale and watch with an optional lifetime warranty. So that means no worries for you. Alright, so how can you get your hands on the fit track scale and smartwatch I'll have a link you can use which I'll put for you guys in the show notes. Right now using the link you can save up to over 60% off the regular price. And if you use the code New Me 20 you can get an extra 20% off. You also get free shipping on your orders for a limited time. Make sure guys you take advantage of this sweet deal of over 60% off the daris scale and a tree a tracker and free shipping. Just click on the link to the fit track site in the show notes. Alright guys, without further ado, here is my interview. My good friend just come on Gill Alright guys, it's Kevin here on FIT UNITED Podcast. I've gotten my guess just common Gil on the show. How are you doing? I'm

Unknown Speaker 6:08

doing well doing well. I'm

Unknown Speaker 6:10

so happy that you're here because you're going back to Australia in a few days. That right also, when are you going back? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 6:15

I leave on next Saturday. Okay, well, I'm

Unknown Speaker 6:17

kind of sad about that, because we didn't get spent as much time perhaps, as it would like to always see you here at the gym. But I'm happy that we're able to sit down today. I'm really excited about a conversation. So I want to tell everybody a bit about how we met, at least from my recollection, you can correct me. We met here, an iron alley. Yeah, Jim. And my first impressions of you was that you seem really quiet at first. But that changed very quickly. I'll tell you that much. Like just a little bit of getting to know you and just kind of having a couple conversations and all sudden it was like bam. And I think that's one thing that people will learn about you as we start talking. But one thing I really appreciate about you was once you got to know someone, even just on you know, you know a small level, you were able to connect with them and We would have conversations that would go on, Paul could probably go on for hours. And so we should do this. We should have an episode. And we should talk about all of those things that we talked about. So that's why I'm glad that you're here. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So I want to kind of share the trajectory in your life, how you've gotten to where you are now. And what kind of challenges and things circled around how you were able to get to the point that you're at now in your life?

Unknown Speaker 7:25

Yeah, yeah. Go for it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 7:26

So I want to start go way back to high school. All right. So I mean, that's not that far back.

Unknown Speaker 7:32

No, no, actually. Yeah, I feel like it was so long ago. But probably it's just been a

Unknown Speaker 7:37

book because so much has transpired since then. Exactly. So from what I understand you finish high school a year early.

Unknown Speaker 7:45

So how did you pull that off?

Unknown Speaker 7:48

Okay, so it was a little out of my control. I was very young and then I'm back in primary school, a teacher of mine told my parents that they thought I was excelling in school, and they're like, we don't think your daughter needs to do grade two. So they're like lettuce, you can skip a grade. And your daughter are like, you know, so I just never went to grade two. That's crazy. Um, and I believe my parents put me into like preschool and kindergarten a little early too. So okay, I ended up graduating high school at 16.

Unknown Speaker 8:21

Okay, yeah. So you you essentially skipped quite early on though, but what was it that was that your teacher at grade two was saying? Or grade one, I guess saying like, hey, skip it all together. Like what was it about you like, what were you excelling in was a certain subject or wasn't

Unknown Speaker 8:35

honestly I'm not sure.

Unknown Speaker 8:38

I'm not too sure. But I had a lot of

Unknown Speaker 8:42

help from my older siblings. They were just, you know, I guess like they got me I was always studying around them. When I was even younger, I'd see them studying. And I'm kind of the kid who just like I would want to sit with them. So I guess it just started like doing whatever a grade one child what do I see? I see near them, but I guess

Unknown Speaker 8:58

yeah, so it helped a lot that you Had older siblings. I know your brother. Yes. And who else is

Unknown Speaker 9:03

I have given prob and Amen. Oh yes. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 9:06

not brothers.

Unknown Speaker 9:08

Yes. Yeah. So yes, I have two older brothers and two older sisters.

Unknown Speaker 9:12

Oh, did not know that. Wow, I should ask you that before. You are the youngest.

Unknown Speaker 9:16

Yes. Gotcha.

Unknown Speaker 9:18

Okay. Because I know obviously I know Vish because he comes here into the gym. And I feel like he's been a fairly big influence in your life given where you guys are studying right now. So we'll get into that a little bit later. That's why I know so much about fish. Okay, so you finished high school early. How was it being perceived by your friends and no peers because that everyone know that you were younger or you kind of just pulled it off as if whatever I'm same age,

Unknown Speaker 9:42

everyone knew I was younger. But I feel like when you skip a grade so young, you develop at the age and mental level that your peers are developing at. So I was always I wouldn't fit in I'd say with the kids that were actually my age. I would fit in with the kids. That was I was in class with

Unknown Speaker 10:01

yours a year older

Unknown Speaker 10:02

that were a year older essentially. Yeah, so I found that being true throughout high school. No one really cared much about my age, necessarily. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 10:11

Okay. I mean, me going going through elementary school, I remember I did these advanced like math stuff. I mean, I still hate math now. But at the time, I was really good. I think maybe it was grade five or six or something. Anyway, I just remember feeling like I was not outcast, feeling like I was different from a bunch of people, because there was a couple of guys that were in this group of advanced math people. And we were kind of like, oh, who are those nerds? And of course, it was like two or three Asian guys in there. There was you know, whatever. Right. But did you ever feel like you were slightly different than the rest only because you were younger? Did you internally feel that or did people make you feel that way?

Unknown Speaker 10:47

Oh, that's a good question. So I would say I had like an internal conflict, which I still have to date where I feel like I work very hard just to feel like I just Just know that I can fit in. And back in high school for me it was I never wanted to stop working hard, because I wanted to fit in. But I also always I was very type A in high school. I had a hard time socially I feel because I did hang around my brothers a lot. So like with girls, and I know that's a big thing, like being in cliques and stuff. I did find it a little hard to fit in and had some things going on in high school. So I think it was a lot of things but yeah, so high school was like a little rough, I would say was it Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 11:33

well, I was actually was gonna ask you next was how was high school for you? Did you have a solid crew of friends that you could rely on that had your back? Or Well, how was it for you?

Unknown Speaker 11:42

Um, good question. So I had a great group of friends. I still hang out with some of them to date. We catch up whenever we're all back in one place. But I would say things started going bad for me in around grade 11 and 12. I'm sure we'll talk about it later, but I was diagnosed with celiac disease in grade 11, which celiac disease was not a common diagnosis back in the day, I remember my mom and I have to drive to the states to go get me gluten free food and like lo and behold in this current, you know, age and date, it's like, there's aisles dedicated to my gosh,

Unknown Speaker 12:18

yeah. Not that

Unknown Speaker 12:20

not then. Yeah. And it was hard to even convince my, like, family physician to be like, Listen, I think there's something wrong with me. I feel so crappy all the time. So my health was taking a toll and I was competitively swimming then. Okay. And I was I looked quite malnourished, I was very underweight. And, you know, that gets people talking, especially when you're in high school and people will come up with different explanation as to why you've lost so much weight right. So I dealt with a lot of that and I had some good friends to help me through that, but it was all internal once again, and you know, I never really especially when my brother left for university. I was like, fellas Can only child. Um, and then along with that just came like this general anxiety I just like I was always worried about what everybody thought about me I was worried about myself, I wanted to be this perfect person and I kept feeling like I wasn't there, right. Um, and unfortunately like I didn't take care of it or accepted or really know what was happening back in the day. And it wasn't good for it that was sort of like the start of like the toll that like my mental health took. I see. It started in around then. So you know, when I got diagnosed, that was also very hard because I didn't want to be eating gluten free, which sounds so silly right now. But I went all my friends. Like I just wanted to fit in I just wanted that was like my goal in high school was just to be totally normal and accepted. And I just felt like I couldn't write. And, yeah, so good friends, but had so many internal conflicts that were I wouldn't even talk about often I would just sort of struggle quietly. But then around the end of grade 12, it became very aware to a lot of people that I wasn't doing well, right. And I went to a great high school that was very supportive of me. And you know, they just try to help me in whatever way they could. Yeah. So still grateful for the teachers that I had there. That's awesome.

Unknown Speaker 14:17

Yeah, I think teachers have such a huge influence. And I had this conversation with someone the other day, like how memorable some teachers and educators can be. And I don't know if they realize just how memorable some of them can be like, in a good way, in a positive way. Like, I remember my elementary school teachers that, you know, made the biggest impact on me. And I think that's great that despite your challenges in high school, you were able to still have teachers or remember the teachers that were very influential or least helpful to you during those challenging times.

Unknown Speaker 14:45


Unknown Speaker 14:46

Yeah. So going back to your diagnosis, you had to change quite a lot of things. So you're obviously your dietary restrictions that impacted your did that impact your ability to swim competitively. Because your body was changing so much,

Unknown Speaker 15:02

it didn't. I don't know if it had like a direct effect on my swimming, but my body image was all over the place. You know, I, that's when I really started dealing with a lot of body image issues where I was like I went from being, you know, in high school, I feel like we idolize thin people. And it's just because that's what you see on magazines or whatnot. And I was there at one point, in a very unhealthy way. And then to put on weight because I was actually getting healthy, right was something that was very alarming and just didn't sit well with me. I was like, This is not who I am. And, you know, I would all these unhealthy eating habits then build up, which went out of check for years and years. And so

Unknown Speaker 15:41

there's such a huge disconnect with what the the world's perception is, or at least the image that you know, media is putting out there and what's healthy and what actually is healthy. And I think there's going to be an ongoing challenge. But I think you saw that and you were probably at the time struggling with Well, if that's the image of healthy, whatever is on the cover of a magazine, then why am I Being healthy and not looking like that?

Unknown Speaker 16:01

Absolutely, absolutely. Oh, like, it's taken years to be like, oh, everybody's not supposed to look the same. Like I you know, I still struggle with it note without a doubt, but it's I'm getting to a better place with it. So awesome.

Unknown Speaker 16:14

And I think that's, that's why I love your story is that you're constantly improving and you've acknowledged it. So we're going to touch on that a little bit more later. But I think that's so awesome. Now, now that you've finished high school at 16 you now have decided that you're going to go pursue medicine Now how did you transition from I'm going to graduate high or I've graduated high school. I'm gonna go pursue or Well first of all, you were you went to get your undergraduate degree, Gil. So take me there. When did you decide to go to school and what to study?

Unknown Speaker 16:45

Um, I always knew I was gonna go off to university. I feel like my parents really valued education and I knew I wouldn't know what to do with myself. If I hadn't gone off to an undergrad. It was just something that I knew was a right of, not a rite of passage, but you know, I've immigrant parents and nothing mattered more to them than education. Right. And so I went off to McGill, which is a different route than most of my high school friends took because UBC was like a very local and good university to go to, but I decided to take off and I was still 16 at the time 16 throughout my orientation and attend McGill I used to joke around back then being like, Oh, I want to be a doctor. But little did I know like it takes you know, it's a big statement. Of course, of course. Um, but then I am Yeah, so I started studying there and did my bachelor's ended up choosing my major to be pharmacology, okay. Which was, you know, it's like you think you know what you're doing. So you pick something and I went down that route. It was a very interesting route. But I do not believe pursuing pharmacology or pharmacy any further would have been the right choice for me. I see. I see. But

Unknown Speaker 17:59

at the Time it felt like that was the right thing to do.

Unknown Speaker 18:02

Yeah, I think it was interesting. And

Unknown Speaker 18:06

this is just like this embarrassing to admit, but like, I wanted to be unique or like, have an edge to myself. And I was like, Whoa, you know what sounds awesome is doing pharmacology like, you'd be surprised the

Unknown Speaker 18:17

the amount of decisions that are made because you just want to be different. I mean, I make decisions a lot with that in mind all the time. Right? Okay, well, you know, everyone's going one direction, I'm going to go against the grain. So the fact that you'd be that decision probably is beneficial for you in the long run. It may not seem like it right now. But it's pharmacology fairly applicable to what you're doing now. Is there any you know, I'm sure there is.

Unknown Speaker 18:39

Yeah, absolutely. For any of like the science and medical geeks, in pharmacology, you study a lot of pathophysiology. So in order to learn how a drug works, or how you're supposed to create a drug, or put it into effect, you need to understand the mechanism by which a disease happens, right. So what's breaking down on a molecular level? Is it a receptor issue? Is it you know, like, what is it? Is it an imbalance? Is it an enzyme issue? And once you can figure that out, so once you have your background knowledge of why you have a disease, and what's the physiology that gets a person there, then you can start building a drug or something to target. Right? So, pharmacology ended up being so much more about the pathophysiology, which is the entirety of medicine. I feel like you want to know the clinical, you want to know why something goes wrong, you know, so it ended up being like a nice warm up course. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 19:35

yeah. So in hindsight, then you would say it was a good decision.

Unknown Speaker 19:38

It was a, it was a great decision.

Unknown Speaker 19:41

I struggled more at McGill than I do in medical school right now.

Unknown Speaker 19:44

Really, just because

Unknown Speaker 19:46

it taught me how to study by me making a lot of mistakes. Like, it wasn't that it just came to me it was like I had to learn how to study effectively and put things into my brain and understand them without having guidance, right? So having four and a half years to trial and error that I think that's a lot of what undergrad is, it's you trying to find yourself in so many different ways. And one thing it taught me was like things that work for me and things that don't.

Unknown Speaker 20:14

So you're just now much more efficient person because of your experience going to school and going off to McGill and doing those things. Absolutely. I think that's so awesome, because I had another guest. And before that went to school, University of Calgary, and I bounce things off her that I didn't experience myself as in like, I went to school as a few, which is a local school. I didn't have the fortitude, the mental fortitude at 17. Whereas you did at 16. To be like, I'm going to go across the country. I'm going to go study and I'm going to live my life. Like I just had so many things that I felt was tying me down here and I just didn't have that fortitude to be like, I'm going to go and do my own thing and be myself for four or five years, whatever. So I commend you for being able to do that and being able to say, Hey, this is actually what's it was a very formative me what you're saying?

Unknown Speaker 21:01

Yeah. Oh man, it was a learning experience of anything I think.

Unknown Speaker 21:07

Learning how to put your dubay cover on by yourself and like having a FaceTime your mom be like, how do you put this thing on to?

Unknown Speaker 21:13

That's funny

Unknown Speaker 21:14

Time management is just like you need to eat well, you need to healthy you need to get some exercise and each move and like, that's what undergrad taught me. That's what my bachelor's taught me more than anything life skills, yes, life skills and being efficient at them and like learning how to figuring out what's important for me. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 21:35

So you were there for four and a half years. You came back home for a little while. Yes or no? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 21:41

Yeah, remember? Yeah. So I think an interesting part of this whole story is my story, I guess is I told you in high school, I didn't really deal with my self image issues or my anxiety and it followed me into McGill. I was there on a scholarship When I first started and it was renewable, and I just ended up, I was miserable, I was taken out of a place of a lot of stability. My high school offered me a lot of stability, and so did my home. Right? And I was independent, and I lost control of my own life. And, you know, then some people, some medical professionals told me that I had like a generalized anxiety disorder, which I made a part of my identity. I was like, This is who I am. This is why I'm not capable of doing things. And when I'm failing, you're struggling. It's because of

Unknown Speaker 22:33

this. This was your crutch.

Unknown Speaker 22:34

It was my biggest crutch and I made it a part of my identity. And every time something happened in my life, I had an external thing that I could blame it on. And I did that for two years and around finals of my second year, I looked at my life. And I remember where I was, and I was just so upset at looking at myself from like an omniscient point of view. And I really This isn't who I set out to be. I was like, I need something to change. If I want to keep going. I had dreams before I started up at McGill. Right? And I had some things I wanted to accomplish. And I knew if I kept going down the path that I was going down, I was not going to get anywhere. Yeah. So I talked to some advisors at McGill. And I said, I want to go back to UBC for a year because I knew if I dropped out of school at that point, I would probably not end up going back coming

Unknown Speaker 23:25

back. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 23:26

I was like, I knew that was where I was at at that point with with my education with my mental health with everything I knew I could leave right now. And I would never come back because school had become toxic for me in school is education is something I really remember enjoying at one right

Unknown Speaker 23:42

and then all sudden, it's not

Unknown Speaker 23:44

Yeah, and I'm not moving my body, which I knew was something in high school that I love to do. wasn't eating right for my celiac disease, you know, so I was like, malnourished, and there was so many things happening and I remember calling my parents saying, I want to come back. Yeah. So I got everything in order. I took pharmacology courses back at UBC, they have a great program. So I was here for a year. So I did a study away they call it for a year at UBC with transferable credits all the way back to. Exactly, exactly so and then I end up taking some really interesting electives here at UBC, which made me do an extra half semester. But that ended up

Unknown Speaker 24:20

with I was the four and a half.

Unknown Speaker 24:23

Yeah, I took like English courses love it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 24:27

But see, now you got a breath of knowledge, right? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 24:29

And I got to enjoy Vancouver and you will see and really know what my UBC friends felt like. And it was tough but interesting in its own way. I had to like make new like, you know,

Unknown Speaker 24:40

starting over again, it is starting over.

Unknown Speaker 24:42

So now that you knowing that you had this experience between UBC and McGill. Was there any part of you that was like, I'm just gonna stay UBC and finish here? Or was there like, Okay, I know I'm gonna go back like what was your mindset at the time to finish?

Unknown Speaker 24:55

I had a lot of thoughts. I was

Unknown Speaker 24:57

like, maybe I should switch into nursing. Maybe just switched Nutrition, maybe pharmacology is not for me. But I knew that my bachelor's was just a part of where I wanted to be. And I knew starting over an entirely new program of for a bachelor's program wasn't what I wanted, right? So I was like, I'm going to tough it out. I'm going to finish it up. And when I went back for my fourth year, I just end up taking a lot of neuro pharmacology, focus courses, neuro anatomy, because I was like, You know what, I might as well just do things I enjoy, right? If I'm going to be finishing up this program, and it ended up working out for the better, and, you know, so I did, I had a lot of thoughts, but I also didn't want to commit more time than I already had to into this bachelor's program. I see.

Unknown Speaker 25:39

Yeah. Okay. I think that's really cool that you made the decision to do something that you know, do classes or whatever that you enjoyed, because I think that was one thing for me that was a big downfall was when I went to school. I was like, Okay, well, these are the things that I need to take. And I mean, there's an element of that that I think is important, but also you don't get a chance to really discover what it is that is good for For you, and what, you know, jobs with you in terms of a class or whatever, like a topic or a subject, and I think it took me longer to discover what it is that I really wanted to do, because I was too much too busy thinking about what I needed to do versus what I felt like I wanted to do. Mm hmm. Right. And so I think you were able to find that partway through.

Unknown Speaker 26:18

Yeah, I mean, the first two years, mine were the same. Like it was just me taking a bunch of required courses like genetics, calculus, physics and me questioning like, why am I doing the Yeah, like, I thought High School was over. But in McGill, they call them filter courses. Okay. Like, they were really to filter out the people that just didn't belong. Right. Right. Right, right.

Unknown Speaker 26:39

Oh, that makes sense. I mean, there's a way to, like, you know, filter, you know, whether you're committed or not do it. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 26:45

it sounds rough. And, you know, I was like, maybe I'm not meant for

Unknown Speaker 26:48

Yeah, but again, mental fortitude. You're able to get yourself through it. Right. Yeah. Despite all the challenges that you were going through now. Now that you finished McGill, you finish your degree I guess I jumped ahead of myself a little bit earlier. But now you're finished. Now we're going to decide where you want to go after finishing. How did you make that decision?

Unknown Speaker 27:09

Yeah, I'm, so I'm trying to decide where I want to go what I want to do with my life. So December 2018, is when I come home and pack up my life for Montreal, and come pack. And I decided I was going to write the MCAT. So I was like, Okay, so the M cats, the medical school admission exam that you need to write for almost every single med school. So I've known from, like, from listening to my peers and my brother and a lot of other people that you need to put a couple of months away for this. Yeah. So I decided to write I didn't prepare you, me. Yeah, study and prepare and it's a consistent effort. And something that I hadn't learned until about my last year at McGill was consistency.

Unknown Speaker 27:50

I also at that time,

Unknown Speaker 27:53

was true, like, was being a little more honest with myself, and I realized I looked at my GP And I'm like, you know what, I'm not sitting at a 4.0. And I looked at the amount of research I had done, or the amount of volunteer work that I had done compared to my peers who were competitive for a Canadian med school. And like, Kev, when I say I was on a high after my McGill edge, like after I finished my last final season, I finally felt like I'd hacked life. I was like, on an education high. I was like, I know how to do well in exams, despite everything someone could throw at me. And I'm like, I need to continue this. I was like, I was like, I need to continue this and I need to do it quick.

Unknown Speaker 28:34

Keep rolling,

Unknown Speaker 28:35

rolling. So I get home, just did the holidays with my family, and I just start doing from my MCAT. And then I wrote that on April 20. Okay, and there's a quick turnaround for what I'm about to say. So like, I wrote it on May 20. Sorry, April 20. I believe the results came out a month later.

Unknown Speaker 28:53

And that's probably an anxious month.

Unknown Speaker 28:55

Yeah. Well, yeah. So I was getting other things ready. And then You might have to fact check me this on later. But I believe I got accepted into the med school that I'm at on June 1. So it was like, April 20, boom, boom, boom, June 1. Yeah, it was either June 1 or July 1, but I got accepted very quickly and just then there and then I was waiting for some other offers, but my brother was at this med school. So I was like, Okay, I'm not even going to interview Yeah, with I it was the first time in my life. I was like, I'm sorry. Like,

Unknown Speaker 29:29

you're having to turn people down almost

Unknown Speaker 29:31

turn. Yeah, some schools down and

Unknown Speaker 29:35

just choosing this not only because it was simple and easy, but I didn't want to go through decision fatigue. And I was about to like, go down that road. Right. So I was like, my, I already have a sibling in this in this state and like, why I'm just gonna do it. Right. So um, I ended up at University of Queensland.

Unknown Speaker 29:52

Yeah. Which I think is awesome. Again, stepping out of your comfort zone going somewhere completely out of the country now and pursuing You know, medicine. So when you were when you had taken the M cats how what's the process? Obviously a little bit ignorant to this, but you take the MCAT do those results get sent to a bunch of different med schools? Or do you apply for ones that you are hoping to be considered for?

Unknown Speaker 30:15

So how it works is there's the AMC website, and I believe when you are sorry, when you're putting out your score, you can say like, Oh, I want schools to be able to see my score. So they can send me like interested in offers. Gotcha. But the scores get sent through them. You don't actually get to like, it's just like a you're just a third party. Yeah, you know, they want it all to go legally. So like, they send the scores out, everything's very legal,

Unknown Speaker 30:41

like in the schools approach you given based on your scores?

Unknown Speaker 30:45

No, so you apply Oh, but um, every school on their website, you'll see they have like, requirements, or they're like, this is our minimum MCAT score that will so you you have to look at yourself and you have to be like, How well did I do? Do I need to rewrite it? Do I not And then your application matters and your MCAT matters. And then most schools now are interviewing. So then your interview matters, whether that's like a MMI MMI style interview, or that's just, you know, face to face, a Skype interview. All of those things matter. They want to know who you are as a person, they want to see your score, they want to see your GPA from undergrad. And then that transcript is also sent through university you don't open those seals. Yeah, of course, you just sending everything direct, and then you wait to hear back. It's often a very lengthy process. So for me to be accepted so quickly, I actually wasn't ready for that. I was

Unknown Speaker 31:37

just like such a whirlwind of a process. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 31:39

So it's funny because you say you weren't ready because it all happened so quickly, but in a way, I think anybody would probably be more anxious not either not getting accepted that quickly. Or, you know, yeah, because you're just not getting it. All right for a bunch of places. Now. all the places that you had applied to, that you showed interest in, besides University of Queensland Were you accepted at all the other ones as well? Or were there other ones that were like, you know,

Unknown Speaker 32:04

I'm so I don't actually know if I would have I got accepted to another one other university immediately, but I wouldn't know if I did because I was asked to interview okay. And so I declined to interview first I was going to go through it to be like, this is going to provide growth and this suffering will be good experience. But then I was like, No, like this is just stop giving yourself unnecessary stress. Like, a part of me was like, Yo, this would be great. But I was like, No,

Unknown Speaker 32:29

this is not where Yeah, so

Unknown Speaker 32:31

ultimately, you made the decision to go to University, University of Queensland. Yeah. In Australia. And part of the benefit is that your older brother also studied there are studies

Unknown Speaker 32:40

studies there.

Unknown Speaker 32:41

There Yeah. So now how big of a factor was that? furbish to be you know, studying at the same school

Unknown Speaker 32:49

up huge you know, I would sometimes when I'm really really feeling high and mighty, I try to like, make it feel like he didn't have a huge impact. I'm like, No, I did this all by myself. This is all about But coming home to a loved one being able to grow with somebody I think companionship is the biggest takeaway I think it can come in so many forms. And for my it really developed my brother and my relationship you know, we were at a different point before and now all of a sudden we were seeing every part of each other's

Unknown Speaker 33:19

years almost again right where peers

Unknown Speaker 33:21

and we learned a lot about respecting each other in different forms you know, as as as people who live together but as professionals, because it was valuing each other's opinions and just like knowing when the other person may know more about a topic and whatnot and then also as just my best friend Yeah. And knowing when to trust someone to be like, no, maybe they're right and I'm just so in my head that but that goes with anything, but I think companionship was the biggest thing to have somebody who knows you well enough to know when you're not doing well but you won't speak out about it. Yeah. Or knows when you're about to go put yourself into like the deep end and there like giving you a warning, they're like, Hey, I think you're trying to take too much on your plate. Cuz I know you. So I think maybe you should back off. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 34:06

yeah, that's actually really valuable information that you saying here because I think the interpersonal relationship between siblings, perhaps as kids is so different than in adulthood. Here you are saying that you actually appreciate the feedback he gives you, you know, advice, perhaps that, you know, he provides and just the companionship or the friendship that he that he's there for for you. Whereas as a kid, you're probably like, get out of here, man, you're in my face. Did you ever have that kind of relationship when you were younger?

Unknown Speaker 34:33

Absolutely. I mean, I'd say. I mean, you're making me sound like a very good sibling. Right now. There are times where he'll give me really, really good advice. Or, you know, he'll tell me something and I won't. My immediate reaction will be to put all my walls up and be like, no, like, you don't know what is best. But then a week later, I come back and I'm like, I'm really sorry.

Unknown Speaker 34:54

Yeah. You know, you're right.

Unknown Speaker 34:56

I should Yeah, I should be more open to listening. This is Something I'm working on is just openness and listening to somebody else's opinions, even if it completely different from mine, and listening to them with an open mind, rather than closing myself off and shutting out their argument before they even begin just thinking that, you know, I am the right one. This is my life, of course, I know what's best for you. It might be that, you know, this person who's also going through the same program and is ahead of me, and lives a very similar life to me and like grew up in the same upbringing as I did. Like I'm, you know, so it's I'm learning to have faith and trusting someone else's capabilities. It's just having faith and trusting. I think trust is very difficult. Yeah, yeah. And loyalty, just like interesting. Trust, loyalty, all those things is those are things I've learned recently.

Unknown Speaker 35:45

And that's interesting. You use those words because trust loyalty, those are words that you would use in perhaps a relationship that you have with someone like a romantic relationship, whereas yours you're referring to those words in a sibling relationship and how that changes and grows As adults, especially as you're growing in the medical field and studying same thing,

Unknown Speaker 36:04

Yeah, I am. I think now that I realized that it's just my relationship with my brother is so special that I would say it is my most important relationship in my life. And

Unknown Speaker 36:17

I don't know if it was my relationship with my brother.

Unknown Speaker 36:19

Why not? But she'll be listening later.

Unknown Speaker 36:21

Yeah, I am.

Unknown Speaker 36:25

It was the first time I realized that, too. You have to recognize how much work you want to put into a relationship. Yeah. And sometimes you won't recognize that until it's gone.

Unknown Speaker 36:34

Yeah. Oh, man. It's so true.

Unknown Speaker 36:36

Or until you know, it's ended poorly or something's happened. And then so once you recognize that you also need to be able to put in an effort and it's like the word unconditional love, is like, I don't know if people just toss it around. It is hard. Like to love somebody means so many different things. You know, it's to support them sometimes when you're not agreeing with them. It's just support them when you're tired of your own life, it's to listen to them, even if maybe they haven't listened to you, like, it's to always keep your end of a promise. And learning that with my brother has helped so much in my other relationships, you know, even with my parents and, but he is the one person who have just put in so much effort into that, like, it's just been such a wonderful thing. Right. And that's the one of the biggest things that medical school has given to me so far.

Unknown Speaker 37:26

That's actually really awesome. I think and I think it's mutual. I mean, obviously, when I talk to fish and you're not here, whatever, I think those feelings and those efforts are mutual. And it actually makes me reflect knowing your guys relationship. Obviously, I know a little bit deeper now but my relationship with my sister, I've got a couple steps as the live elsewhere. But my half sister who was you know, Rochelle, I think she's eight years younger than me and I think just because of that age gap. As a child younger I was always feeling like I was this older, you know, whatever. I know everything guy and I was a very protective brother. Right. I've been lucky in that she ends up you know, you know, being with somebody who's you know, her life partner, and made it easy for me. She wasn't the one that was out dating all the time. And I didn't have to worry about it so much. So I'm a little bit of a shout out to my sister, first of all, but the relationship that I had with her when I was younger, I feel like and then seeing your guys relationship and come in comparison to how I've developed mine with my sister, I feel like there's some things that I could take away from how you guys are because not only because you guys are doing things together, but I think just the mutual respect that you have not that don't have mutual respect with my sister. I do a lot now. But I feel like I wish I'd started that sooner because we come from a broken family, I mean, single mom raised by single mom, and that put a lot of strain between us, because I felt like I was that well not felt like but I became the man of the house essentially. And just by virtue of that, I think she felt like I was cracking down on her like I was the other Dad, you know what I'm saying? And so, now in adulthood we can laugh about It, it's great. We have a really good relationship now, but I feel like making up to do. And I think where you guys are at, you know, between you and vicious is a really great place to be. Because now you guys are going to make, you know, big changes in your life and you guys are doing it together, which I think is awesome. And it translates into other things besides med school.

Unknown Speaker 39:16

Absolutely. We're gonna get to an absolutely, no, I think.

Unknown Speaker 39:20

I think that's Yeah, I think when our friends when they see our relationship as siblings, some people are like, how come you guys spend so much time together? Or like, why do you guys you know, it's so cool. Or some people are just like, how do you do it? It's tough. Yeah, but it's just it's one of my most fruitful relationships and one that's just provided me with so many things. And my brother when I was younger, played a very similar role. He played a very father very paternalistic role. Yeah. So for him to also when I arrived in Australia, to realize that I was an adult, and like, realize I was able to, you know, be very competent. It took some it's a very it was a huge adjustment period for him to be like, I need to back off and let her do her life and make her mistakes without always being. So now it's more like we're learning more of how to play a more sibling and a more equal relationship rather than him being so paternalistic because that is what I needed when I was younger, and I, and it was great. And it and it kept me out of so many different troubles that could have run into in my life, you know, having him there do that. But now it was more, I think I know what I'm doing. So, but it was a difficult transition even for me because sometimes I wanted somebody to like, you know, catch me when I fall, but he's like, no, if we're going to do this, we know if we're going to be real siblings, more friends than me have that role. It's going to take a bit of, you know, you need to be okay with being independent. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 40:45

And kind of learning things. Yeah. And yeah. Did you ever go back to high school real quick? Did he let you go to high school dances or did you even care to go to high school dances for school?

Unknown Speaker 40:54

He let me go to high school dances. Okay, um, yeah, he

Unknown Speaker 41:00

Yeah, I think he's, he's funny in that way. I think he's very quiet about his ways that he's protected. Um, he won't like openly speak out about it. But just like if you know him well enough, you'll know when he's just like a little. irked.

Unknown Speaker 41:12

Yeah. Well, I asked you that because I did let my sister go to high school. It was like, No, you don't want to mess with that stuff. The guys that you're going to meet there, guys like me, and you don't want to meet guys like me at the dance? Or shall I know she had a rough? But obviously Things are different now. But yeah, that was really funny. So now obviously, your brother, you guys were kind of going to school together. Obviously, different levels are different. You know, he's obviously for a bit further ahead of him. But the interpersonal aspect of being in med school is something that I was curious about. I think you touched on it when we talked a couple couple of weeks ago in that everyone is so immersed with information and knowledge and you're just bombarded with it. And this all you do is you get to absorb like a sponge. And sometimes it's just so I guess it's it's Yeah, it's overwhelmed. So how is that in terms of how you are with peers that are, you know, studying with you at your level? And I think you mentioned something about, it just felt like, you just have to kind of get your two cents in because otherwise you don't have a chance to express your knowledge and things like that. Like how, how is that relationship with other people that are you studying with?

Unknown Speaker 42:20

Um, Wow, good question. So, I would say the biggest thing was, when you when I entered med school is just you have people of different ages. And everyone's coming in and bringing in different experiences. You know, some have a lot like we have people who was working worked as registered nurses coming back from medical school, so their clinical knowledge is out of this world and like their experience, and then you have other ones were younger than I am even like they're 19 or 20. But these kids are just not even kids. These like men and women are just so smart. And you know, so you feel this constant needs To prove yourself, and I, in the beginning, I felt that, you know, in the beginning, it was sort of, I have to work really hard to feel like so people know that I fit in. So I know that I fit in, right. And to know that this was the right choice for me. And that's hard because even at by the end of the year, you still won't know like, you know, it won't. No one's gonna give you the answer to this is your and that's the thing about medical school is they give you such little feedback. And I learned this from one of the registrar's I was working with in the hospital, he said, when you're doing well, no one will really give you any feedback back. You'll just have to continue and trust yourself and hope you're going down the right path. But he said when you're doing poorly or you do something that's not acceptable, you'll hear back about it right. But until you don't hear back about it, you just have to keep having faith in things you're doing and just keep going down that road. Right. Right. Which is the hard part but that is really what it is like we don't have many, the assessments are all sort of at the same period at the same time. So it's like one game days here that is the only day that you will be assessed yeah so the other 10 months or so that you spend studying you best believe that you were putting in that good consistent effort because it only show for them for the assessments and stuff on that one day,

Unknown Speaker 44:21

right? So there's really no consistent feedback loop where you can be like, test the temperature, okay, where am I at? How am I doing? It's just kind of you have to know in yourself confidently that okay, I've done the work, it'll show in my whatever I'm doing, whether it's testing or you know, application of knowledge in a situation things like that.

Unknown Speaker 44:40

Absolutely. And another thing that I'm like learning very quickly is and I think my brother and most of my friends that I surround myself with, have the same mentality and I'm you know, I'm learning from their mindset is that how well you do on your med school exams is not does not translate to how good of a physician you'll end up being okay? Because getting some nice facts right about x y Zed disease or like knowing this antibiotic by its name and knowing everything about it will not always translate to you being good in a hospital setting you being you providing good care. It's and that was something that's really difficult for me because I am somebody who loves getting good grades. I just like, you know, I get happy like I place so much of myself value and identity in like marks, which I realized how to change like after my first semester first year I was like, This is not sustainable to place so much value in a letter grade or like a number. I'm like, really allow that to dictate how I feel. But

Unknown Speaker 45:49

that's interesting because I think that's just how school systems are. I mean, we're, it's unfortunate about where Yeah, we associated even from grade one even like the letter grade is your your level of intelligence or value you associated value with that letter for me and I was getting like different colored stars like, you know, if you are the highest as a great marketing guy, you are getting red stars when I went to school in the Philippines, but I mean, same thing, you associate these little things with it. But you don't realize how much you know, intelligence or knowledge and stuff is actually not related to what those numbers are are necessarily.

Unknown Speaker 46:25

Absolutely, yeah. Also you went to school in the Philippines? Yeah, I did.

Unknown Speaker 46:29

I grew up in the Philippines until I was seven. And I moved here as a child. And so I know, new story for you. Yeah, so I moved here when I was when I was quite Yeah. Wow. Cool.

Unknown Speaker 46:40

So it's okay, so to answer the question that you initially asked, it's really easy to get into a cutthroat mentality. Yeah, that's really easy to feel like, I need to word vomit a bunch of smart words. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 46:53


Unknown Speaker 46:54

We get these things called cvl, which are case based learning, okay. And it's very easy to feel like oh, maybe I'm not Saying enough in my cvl group or like, maybe they think I'm stupid because I don't speak out enough about, maybe they don't think I've done my work or maybe I'm the lazy person, right? Just, you know, I don't think you want to be labeled as a lazy person when you're in med school, because then no one will want you on there. You know, see,

Unknown Speaker 47:15

I see I'm so being noticed is what you're saying? Like,

Unknown Speaker 47:18

yeah, you want to be you? I think everybody in medical school in a way. I think I tried to run away from identity being tied in school. Because I was like, No, I think this is the classic thing you try to do is you're like, I'm more than a med student. I'm more than a med student. So you keep trying to do more things. But you also needed I also needed to come to the acceptance that like yes, I do study a lot like, but it's a part of my life, like I need to stop trying to run away and shying away from being that kid who studies a lot, which I tried to do, but at the same time, I would want to be the one who knew things. So it's just like you're in this weird conflict with yourself and pull, push and pull of you being like, I want to know things. But then you also being like, I don't want to be the kid knows everything. Yeah. So you got to find a healthy balance. And I truly am starting to think that like, that is what all med school is about is like learning a lifestyle that will work for you once you're out of this protected school environment. And once you're in the workforce,

Unknown Speaker 48:15

Yeah, I was gonna say like, I feel like, you will never stop learning. Of course, that's just a life thing. But also in med school, there's just so much out there that you can literally, you know, stop your brain with all this information and knowledge. You'll never run out of that. So to be able to say, hey, maybe I just don't need to know as much as I feel like I need to know right now and just let that come as I as I progress.

Unknown Speaker 48:36

Absolutely. I'm constantly told this again, again, they're like, just master the fundamentals. No, become really good at your basics. Because if you have a good understanding and a good, like, fundamental basis of medicine, and what it is, you can add to that as you go along in your career onto the parts that you need to, but if you don't have that good core, you know, it's the same thing with like, lift isn't like you can you can apply that to so many things in life is you need to know the basics before you can go off and jump into, like, it sounds really cool to know a lot about like this one very, like nice little thing and like to not be able to have a conversation with somebody else about like the basics right. You know, that's like a fly guessing that's interesting.

Unknown Speaker 49:20

I think that's an interesting point of view. I think a lot of people want to specialize now. I think that's a and I'm going to get to this in a second. But the notion of being specialized, I think that's where people are, are generally veering towards now whereas I always thought it was better to just know a little bit about everything, like a jack of all trades kind of guy, but obviously in medicine, you do end up I mean, unless you're perhaps a GP, but, you know, you end up going in one direction and you want to specialize now, is that kind of where you're leaning right now, you know, early on into your medical career.

Unknown Speaker 49:51

Um, yeah, so I would I'm, I stay away from saying what I want to specialize in because truly I haven't even experienced In some of those fields, I see, but I do believe I want to specialize for various reasons, but I think I will go on to do more than beyond family practice or GP. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 50:12

yeah. Okay. So obviously, you're still exploring and what that may be. That's really interesting

Unknown Speaker 50:15

on different clinical settings, you know, being inside of a operating room versus, you know, being out on the wards and doing more patient based care. So it's like a lot of us seeing the procedural side of it. And then you're seeing more patient like, so I'm learning just by watching right now. And I'm trying to every time I'm in those settings, I'm sort of like, is this something I see myself doing down the road is is something that's sustainable for me, and I think sustainability has become very important to me as a recently.

Unknown Speaker 50:42

Right, right. Yeah. I think that's an interesting perspective that you're still in this discovery stage and that you're not ready to even say what you want to specialize it. So I think I'm glad that you have that perspective on things because it's still it's still early, right? That's right.

Unknown Speaker 50:55

Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't want to be. I didn't want to like put my mind to something. And then shut down the other doors, right?

Unknown Speaker 51:01

Oh, that's true. That's your mind off. So I didn't want

Unknown Speaker 51:03

to, I have some friends who are very certain of what they want to do the moment they enter and they'll focus all their time on that and they'll find doctors to work with. But I am not somebody I haven't found something like that. So I'm just going to keep my options open.

Unknown Speaker 51:16

Yeah, yeah, I wanted I want to transition a little bit to now we've spent you know, talked about, you know, you med school and all that, but I want to talk about your decision to transition and how that's been to living in another country. Obviously, Australia is an English speaking country, so that makes things a little bit easier. Yeah, debatable whether their accent is English. I mean, that's hard to understand. Some guys

Unknown Speaker 51:39

know they have a lot of slang slang

Unknown Speaker 51:40

terms. Yeah, that I know for sure. So packing up and leaving your life and going to Australia to study. How difficult was it for you? I mean, I'm always standing your brother being there already. But was that a relatively easy decision? Um,

Unknown Speaker 51:56

yes and no hard question. I think I've always been very education career driven and focused I, I get told that by a lot of my friends and, and my parents. So when I got accepted to med school, I was just, I was just so happy. I just I didn't see that day ever coming to be completely honest. I felt like nothing that I'd done in my life had ever put me at a point where I would get accepted into med school. I always felt the imposter syndrome I was talking about earlier, but I always just throughout my undergrad, especially in high school, I felt like I belonged. And I felt like I deserved things that I like received. But through undergrad I just felt like I was constantly below the bar. I just felt like I was never doing enough to keep to keep up. So when I got accepted, it was the only thing I could think about, you know, I was like this is I'm getting a second chance. Yeah, I'm getting a chance that I in high school used to joke about that. I want to A doctor, and I'm about to get a chance to be able to do that. Right. So from one perspective, I was like, This is the opportunity that somehow I've been given. Like, at this point, I know that I worked hard for it and whatnot. But you know, in the, in the moment, I was like, this is something I don't deserve. And somehow it's been given to me. So like, I need to go do this.

Unknown Speaker 53:19

So that's actually you said, You felt like this, you were given a second chance. Did you feel like you had a first chance that you lost?

Unknown Speaker 53:25

I felt like

Unknown Speaker 53:27

I could have excelled far greater in my undergrad and in my bachelor's, and I just,

Unknown Speaker 53:33

it's about your I just felt like I never lived up to my potential, which I know it's going to be such a like, controversial thing. If it's me saying if my family members and close friends are going to, you know, I'm very self deprecating and I'm trying to work on that, but I just constantly felt like I didn't do enough on a relationship basis on a academic level on volunteering on you know, any side that you look at it. I didn't feel like did enough or was enough? For those four and a half years?

Unknown Speaker 54:04

I think you could go back and think about all those things and dissect it all you want. But at the end of the day you are where you are because of the things that you did do. And I've learned to accept that the things my shortcomings before are now lessons to me now that I can make sure that I don't make those same mistakes later on.

Unknown Speaker 54:22

So Right, absolutely, yeah. Like, I think I'm very much on the same page. I think those years were. I think how it goes is I think everybody suffers at some point, and everyone gets these points in their life, where will be setbacks, or, and then it's how you decide to move forward. Yeah, man. So I now that I look back at those years, I'm like those years provided me with endless amount of knowledge, and life experience. And I have all these tools and these and I'm going to take all these experiences and now that was my second chance. I was well equipped, whereas when I was 16, I was just a little fish. Yeah, ocean for sure. And now I'm like, this is my chance to redeem what I once wanted to do. And now look at this, like life has taught me all these terrible things. And from these, I've gotten all these. I just knew med school would be easier for me because I just knew I could not I wouldn't go through the same amount of suffering. Like I knew I had

Unknown Speaker 55:18

done the hard work already.

Unknown Speaker 55:19

Exactly. So, and I had a kind of my, my family and I, we joke about this, where I know no matter what comes forward in life, I'm like, oh, it'll never be worse than XYZ time. Like, there were times in my life that were so bad that it's just like, oh, it'll never be worse than this. So like, it only gets better from here. For me, I was at a point in my life in my undergrad where life was so low, that there was nothing worse than that. And so it's just I've been on up since then.

Unknown Speaker 55:49

I think that's an amazing perspective to have now, because, again, I've obviously not pursued med school or anything like that, but perceptually if I were to do it, I would think that it only progressive gets more difficult whether it's life challenges or how difficult you know, the studying gets or all that stuff to me perceptually I feel like it would get more difficult. Whereas you're saying, I've done all the hard work? Well, a lot of the hard work. You're done all the hard work, but you've done a lot of it already. And you're in a great place now that you feel like you can excel and not worry about the little things that you had to learn when you were younger.

Unknown Speaker 56:23

Absolutely, yeah. And I just think I got dealt those cards at a very young age. And some people will get them when they're 40 or 30, you know, so I just got them at a younger age. And that's how I feel about it's not that medical school is easy by any chance. It's just I know how to work hard. Now I know what working hard means. And I'm passionate about it. Rather than being told I have to write this chemistry exam or physics exam. Yeah, you know, it's like this is something I purposely chose to do. So I have a purpose in it. And more so when I get in these really stressful situations. I know how to dig myself out of them. It's like, I'm so self aware at this point that I can keep my mental health. It's just like this balance. I can see myself when I'm

Unknown Speaker 57:01

off kilter, off kilter.

Unknown Speaker 57:03

And I'm like, oh, let's bring you back. It's like, yes, you could keep going down that route. And maybe you'll achieve, maybe you'll get a good grade. And it's like, wait, but you know that life is more than that good, great, because I've learned this from your past is like, at the end of the day, all that matters is you. And I don't think that's what I knew back in undergrad.

Unknown Speaker 57:21

And I think because perhaps it's just experience or, or age. But I love the word self awareness that you just use, because I think that's what most of us all of us need to continue to work on. I know for sure I'm talking about myself, is the ability to understand yourself to a point where you can bring yourself back to ground zero, if you feel like you're going somewhere else or you're you're, you know, off balance or whatever. I think that's a that's continuing. That's a struggle for me, but I think an ongoing process for me is understanding exactly, but I'm at a point now where I feel like I'm fairly self aware. And I'm glad that you're able to know that given the challenges that you deal with on a day to day that's what absolutely not working Going back to challenges though, and your self awareness, you were in a relationship before you left for school in Australia. To me, I think it takes a lot of self awareness to know and make a decision and how you navigate that. Because just as an example, for me, I made decisions around relationship. I didn't go to school, outside of the city because I was too afraid I was 16 or 17. There were other decisions later on in my life. Few Years Later, when a job had said, Hey, I'm going to save a ship you off to Edmonton. And go do your, you know, do your job there for a couple years come back. I was like, Yeah, but, and I was kind of huffy and puffy about and I hesitated. Ultimately, it didn't. It wasn't to the detriment of my career, but at the time, at the time, I thought it would be detrimental to my relationship, and I just didn't have the fortitude. Like you have to be able to make decisions for yourself that you know what's best. So how were you able to make that decision? or How did you navigate that relationship when you knew you had to go off to school?

Unknown Speaker 58:58

Mm hmm. Interesting. So I knew I was going to go to med school at that, at that time, right when I first began, and

Unknown Speaker 59:07

I think

Unknown Speaker 59:09

it's tough for me. I know we're talking about vulnerability earlier. Yeah. And I think something that's really tough for me and I realized this through my just growing up is it's very hard for me to become vulnerable with somebody. And when I achieve that, I kinda want to cling on to it because I'm not open. As you were saying, I wouldn't you thought I was really quiet in the beginning, but I think I'm very good at one on one conversations I, I excel at that, but like to be vulnerable with somebody and open up to them. That is something once I have it, I want to stick to it. So in my relationship, I found that I found so much self growth and all these things and right before I left for med school, I would say that my life was almost everything that I wanted in life. You know, I was in good place with my parents. You know, I loved the co workers I had at my job. They're just good coworkers. I was excelling in the sport that Did for like I was very you know, and I had a community of friends I had, I had a family of its own here at iron alley at your gym, and

Unknown Speaker 1:00:10

everything was great.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:11

You were in a comfortable place,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:12

I was so comfortable. I was comfortable to the point where, you know, I had my routines down, I'm a person of I'm a creature of habit and everything was right for me. You know, there was no reason why I wouldn't be I could continue on with this life. And I would have been hoped, well, this is the thing. I don't know if I would have been happy down the road. I think in the moment, that instant gratification was there. Like if I'd stayed and said, No, I don't want to do med school right now. I'm sure in the moment, that would have felt like the best decision and

Unknown Speaker 1:00:40

I remember having those conversations with you when you were not you'd already decided but you were maybe doubting your decision a little bit. Right.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:47

And I think that's when I first started realizing the sacrifice that comes with a career or like the career path that I'm about to go down. Yeah, and the word sacrifice actually comes up a lot. You know, I've sacrificed a lot of social engagement and a lot of other things in my life because I need to put this as my priority. So where does it stem from? I think it's from my mom, my mom is a wonderful woman who always raised me to be and told me that you should always be able to take care of yourself. And she wanted to raise me so I could be as independent as I wanted and have a successful career. And I knew that I wouldn't be doing her justice. That was something that was always at the back of my mind. But then I also knew I wouldn't be doing myself justice if I didn't, you know, pursue men, right. And I'm someone when I'm in a relationship, I want to be there and I want to be fully there. Right. And I wasn't, you know, I was, it was the adjustment period into Australia was very difficult. Yeah, just because you're around a bunch of new people. You're trying to figure out where you know, you turn to you think you should have friends right away, but that's not how it works, don't you don't just make friends Right away. Um, you're trying to get off on a good start with medical school, which was like tough because you're just like, this is so much information. And you know, you have to figure out what's working and what's not. I tried to keep lifting, because I just went, I competed right before flying out to Australia. So I felt like I needed to be at that caliber still with my lifting. So I had all these expectations of myself, and I wanted to start off on a good foot, you know, like, I think that's what everybody said. And at the same time, it was just this relationship that it just wasn't doing justice to it. I see. And so, yeah, so then I went off, right, I went off because I knew I had to, I knew if I when I sat 510 years down the road, I would not be okay with myself. I see. I would not be happy or okay with myself and I'm glad I'm able to have that foresight into my life where I'm where I know what makes what I truly want, which is hard because I sometimes don't make those decisions. Today, sometimes I will to the instant gratification. Yeah, choice. Um, but I needed to do it for myself and I needed to go away. And,

Unknown Speaker 1:03:09

yeah, interesting. I think of things that we allow into our lives, career friendships, relationships, hobbies, in a hierarchy of priorities. And if you could put that into into this simplistic hierarchy of priorities and going back to when you decided, I'm committing to my decision to go to Australia, I feel like that was at the very top of that totem pole, and that relationship had to come down. Whereas for me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but worse for me, I've always put that relationship first above all else, and then made decisions because of that. And perhaps that was a downfall. Perhaps that was a big learning experience for me, but I always thought that you know what, I will never meet this person again. I will never have the feelings that I have for this person. with someone else again, and therefore, I need to prioritize this because what if there's the big all these what ifs? What if it doesn't work out? Then I'm going to blame myself for it. But I feel like you're what as well. Like, what if I don't pursue the things that I need to do for myself? 510 years down the road?

Unknown Speaker 1:04:17

Yeah. Wow. I mean, that's tough. I mean, and only you'll ever know, of course, what is right for you? And I knew it's interesting, because if you ask me now, my priorities have changed. But yeah, I believe going into medical school is something I was I was 2022 I believe. I was 22 when I started medical school that is too young, and I had too many things I still wanted to do and needed to do on a career basis, because I wanted to be independent and I wanted to be for my mom, because my mom didn't always get all the opportunities she wanted. And it was almost for the woman of my family that I needed to do this. I see.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:59

That was a motivating Driving, I'm

Unknown Speaker 1:05:01

a huge motivation and just I needed to be a role model for someone. And if I couldn't do it myself, I wouldn't ever be able to say that to my children, or just, and it's just knowing what's right for you at the right time. And in that moment when I was 22, and having been given the second chance, well, I got accepted when I was 21. So I was even younger than and I was just like, yes, like, I need to. I just need to do keep my eye on like what I wanted to truthfully deep down, which is, which is hard, because not only peer pressure, but like what other what you want can change, you know, but like, I just had to keep in mind, why I did all what I did and

Unknown Speaker 1:05:42

what I really wanted, and that was hard. And I still don't know, Kev at the end of the day, if the decisions I made were the right ones, and

Unknown Speaker 1:05:53

sometimes I'm scared You know, I'm like, how did I prioritize? You know, like, How many times will I choose my career over things, other things in life. will

Unknown Speaker 1:06:00

this continue?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:02

And I don't think it will. I think getting in and finishing medical school and getting a good residency program are things that are important to me. But I think after this degree after this degree and it's going to be more family focused for me, it's going to be more about me wanting to build a life but to to build a good life and be happy and and I need to have a career. Yeah, is how I felt when I was younger. And that's still how I feel right?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:27

Yeah, I think that's really insightful. And I think people that are listening will hopefully take away something from that because at 21 I was thinking about what bar to go to that. You know, I'm saying and like, where my friends were, what my friends were doing here you are thinking about what career path and how I need to cultivate that career in order for me to set myself up for my future endeavors such as family and stability and all of that stuff. Yeah. And you had those things in mind at 21 when you decided I'm going to go to med school. Mm hmm.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:56

And, you know, I don't give myself credit for that. I just I think it's how I was brought up. Perhaps perhaps I just think it was how I was brought up and like, I saw my parents work endlessly and for them to work endlessly and me not take advantage of all the opportunities I was given these opportunities that they put out for me and, you know, their full support like to not take advantage of those things would have just been a disservice. Yeah, to the life they provided for me is how I felt I see. Um, especially because that's something I wanted to pursue. I wasn't forced into it. It was just more so you know, I'm able to do this. So then why, like, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:07:31

yeah. And they get it like there's not an indebtedness, but I feel like almost like a desire to make parents proud. And I think, from the Indian culture, which you grew up in, and the Filipino culture, of course, it's very, I'm sure all the cultures are like that, too. But there's always that element of I want to make my parents proud and I want to do things that they know that I'm good and they raised a good son, you know, things like that. And I think there's that I think, as well as what I'm hearing from you.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:56

Yeah, I'm very similar, I think. Oh, yeah. Like, approval from your parents was huge for a while.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:05


Unknown Speaker 1:08:06

so yeah, so approval from my parents was important. It is important, but I know it can become dangerous. And there was a point when I was like, Wait, am I doing this for myself? Or will I? Am I doing it for someone else? Am I doing it for approval from society? You know, all those things play a role. And I eventually had to let that go. So I I think I've let go of parent approval not so much. I don't think I have let go of like my brother's approval or like, there's some people in my life that who I still seek their approval and but it's not so much society based now. Whereas when I was younger, it was a lot about like, how do people on Instagram think like, do they like me? Like, does this person I haven't met for 10 years? Like why

Unknown Speaker 1:08:46

Yeah, are they not? What do they think about me? Yeah, like so true, especially about Facebook because I've had friends from Facebook from like, high school and that's like going back years and years. And it's funny I like I'll get a like from a post that I made about My kid or something? Well, Cruz, and we get this random like, I'm like, Where have you been in the last, you know, X amount of years. And it's a kind of an interesting dynamic because social media as it is, you stay friends to almost keep in the loop with people that, you know, really haven't really mattered in your life for 10s of years, right? And it's like, Okay, well, what did they think of me? And obviously, I've let go of that now. But at the time, or before, that was a thoughts like, Okay, well, I need to impress people that, you know, didn't think I was cool back in the day, like, why, you know, it's, it's, it's become about other people and not yourself. Right. So I thought that was

Unknown Speaker 1:09:35

no, absolutely. And, you know, kudos to people who can manage social media on a daily basis and like, keep their life in check. And I've just realized, no matter how much discipline or you know, self love, talk, whatever you want to call it, I practice. I'm just not in a good place with like, once I'm back on social media, it's just like, especially Instagram. I feel like I haven't had the app on my phone for months. That's awesome. But whenever I have it back, I'm like, all things are gonna change, you know, only spend 10 minutes on it. But like if you're sad one day and you put yourself and you scroll through Instagram, you're just going to put yourself into this like deep dark hole.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:11

Yeah, of course, like you dig

Unknown Speaker 1:10:13

further if you keep watching those stories,

Unknown Speaker 1:10:16

top, top top top, become very good at filtering what I what I absorb. It's interesting because on the top, you can see people's stories and I'm like, okay, I haven't I don't know what's going on with that person a while check it out. And then if I don't find it interesting, I just move on. Same with scrolling through, like I have, like 3000 people that I follow. I don't look at 3000 people's things every day. But I think algorithms are they as they are, I think tell you, okay, if you interact with this profile more, it'll show you more of that stuff. Anyway, because of the people that I've filtered out that I don't see all the time. I don't see all that stuff all the time anymore anyway. And I feel like when I start scrolling and I'm like this interested with like two or three Post, I'm just like, All right, I'm moving on, I just closed the app. So I don't know what it was for me that I managed to shut it off. It was probably a switch. And I was like, I really don't need to be absorbing this stuff. But there's this quote from a book that I read many, many years ago that was given to me by john wooden and he said, Stop looking at the scoreboard and just do the things that you need to do for you the score will take care of yourself of itself. play your game. Oh, that's a good and it's always stuck with me. It's It's, it's, it's how I've abided by abide by this kind of rule. Ever since I've seen this. I read this quote. And it's true because everyone is doing their own different things. They're in different stages in life. That is people's highlight reels. I've come to accept that they're not gonna most people don't post you know, things that make them vulnerable. Unless they have really good self awareness and things like that. But when I used to pay attention to this stuff, it yeah, it makes you think, well, what the hell is wrong with me? Why am I not there? or Why don't I look this good? Why don't I have this in that but doing that in myself into this deep hole, I forget to focus on what I need to do to get myself to wherever it is that I see these people in. Because guess what, these people probably weren't paying attention to other people either. And I realized that about myself is that I've just put my blinders on to my little things that are I'm passionate about things that make me tick that I'm that make me happy. And when I look at social media, is just a entertainment piece for a few minutes. And then I move on, of course, I love sharing things, and communicating with people but that's really what it's become. For me. It's not a barometer of where I am at relative to my peers. Yeah, make sense?

Unknown Speaker 1:12:35

That's, that's a good way to look at it. Yeah. I think that requires some discipline, though. I don't know how you got there and like your ability to turn off or, you know, close your app and just be like, Okay, that's it. Yeah, I think that's a very, I think there's a quote, another one says, moderation is the hardest thing for sure. You know, for sure. There's nothing harder than moderation. Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:54

I it really, I think was just a switch for me because I realized how shitty it was making me feel Yeah, I was like, Well, I don't want to feel shitty anymore. So what decision Do I need to make to not feel shitty? And that's like not pay attention to other people's shit. Not that I don't care because people that I care about that oh, okay cool or you know, but I just realized that I don't need to start I don't need to compare anymore. It's unnecessary it's unhealthy and so I've had never had a hadn't had this problem for a long time I bought that comparing other so I think maybe that's something that you know, download the app and then just

Unknown Speaker 1:13:28

yeah, that's like that's a great way to look at it. Um, I still go to on Instagram Don't get me wrong. Everyone makes fun of me for this but I go like on my web browser, and I'll like

Unknown Speaker 1:13:39

and everyone's like, what are you doing? Because I like keeping up with my like, you know, your lovely wife me show I love when you guys had crews. Oh my god. I wanted to keep up with that. I felt like that was a part of my life. You know that. We talked about sacrifice. That was a relationship. I felt was very close and dear to me and to not be here for so much of what was happening, but I was I, I'd see it on Instagram. That was like another reason why I had so much FOMO from that and it wasn't like missing out on partying or anything was missing out on like these times that my friends were going through and you know, these like joyous moments that I couldn't be there milestones

Unknown Speaker 1:14:15

that you couldn't participate in, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:14:16


Unknown Speaker 1:14:18

Well, you made Cruz before he was born a picture frame that is now a mantle are in the gym, have a picture of Cruz when he was first born. And I thought that was such an awesome gift before you left, you're like, I'm not going to be here for his birth, but I'm going to give you this thing. And it's still there. And I and I love the fact that it's there. And I love the fact that it's from you because it was one of the most thoughtful things you know, anyone's ever done for us. So appreciate you.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:44

Thank you. I laugh at it was my DIY, you know, artwork.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:48

Yeah. It is you stepping out of your comfort zone.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:53

Creativity is far gone. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:57

So going back again now to saying that you had a bit A formal because you left. Where is your state of mental health now? Because that's an ongoing process. I know where is that right now for you,

Unknown Speaker 1:15:08

huh? Where is it? That is a big question. So

Unknown Speaker 1:15:14

I think a big way I think social media actually plays a big role in this I

Unknown Speaker 1:15:21

you were talking about missing out or wanting to do what you know, our friends are doing on Instagram. Another thing that I felt in into was everything I did in my life, I felt the need to post it, like I felt the need that everyone needed to see what I was doing. And you know, so then you're in a moment and then you, you pull your phone out. Yeah. And my brother is someone who's never had an Instagram account. So living with him is what made me so aware of what was wrong with the ways I did thing, right. Um, I remember there's this mount Kuta it's a mountain Brisbane and you can bike up a bit up it and you know, I hit a person No record on my climbing time how

Unknown Speaker 1:16:02

quickly did it

Unknown Speaker 1:16:03

quickly I did it. And I don't know this until I get home and my bike is parked inside my apartment and I'm on my phone loading up my watches data. So and the moment I figure it out, I like scream and yell because it's just like, these are the little celebration or the little wins in my life that you know, give me a lot of happiness. And then the second thing I do was I told my brother, but as he's trying to congratulate me, I'm on my phone, trying to like I haven't even taken in this moment myself,

Unknown Speaker 1:16:32

and you're trying to post it. I'm trying to post it. And like, I get it though.

Unknown Speaker 1:16:37

Oh my god, and like, he just stared at me like he's never seen. He's just like, What are you? What are you doing? He's like, look at your life from like, far away. He's like, you haven't even taken in the moment yourself completely. And how happy you are and you haven't been sat with those emotions. And like, you're typing without even looking at your phone. Like you like and he's like you like it. He, you know, he didn't comment much on it. He's like, it's your life, but he's like, just, like, take a glance at that, you know, reflect on that. So then I, you know, I went shower until I was like, Oh, I just felt so bad. I just and for myself, I was embarrassed, like, I felt bad. I was like, Oh my god, like I was cringing at myself. That was like, a mental health moment. That's interesting. And I'll and how that relates is, I really stopped doing things to prove it, you know, I didn't need to tell people that I was doing this program or like, I'm, you know, all these activities that I do and look at me like I do all this stuff in my life. And I want all of your I need approval from all of you validation validation, so I stopped. I mean, you probably notice I didn't post for about, it's been about like, I didn't post for like six, seven. I haven't posted in a while, right? I kind of went cold turkey on it. Because even when I used to feel like it, I was like, I'm not gonna do it. I was like, I want to sit with myself being happy in what I did. And just me know That I did well, and it was giving myself internal validation just being like, No, you did well, like today was a good day, but it's okay. If no one else knows about it. Yeah. Because often in life, people won't know about the good things that you do. And, you know, are you going to go off and tell everybody the good things that you

Unknown Speaker 1:18:15

do more about you than anything? And

Unknown Speaker 1:18:19

so that was a big thing, just mentally doing things that I knew I was going down the right path, but like not sharing them with other people, not because I

Unknown Speaker 1:18:30

wanted to be better or something. It was just more like

Unknown Speaker 1:18:34

I just wanted to be okay with not telling the world everything right. And so that was one thing, just like doing things. Or like, you know, getting a lot of work done, and just being like, okay, nobody else needs to know about it. I just need to sit with these thoughts myself, which is so hard. I twiddle my thumbs sometimes and I'll be like, no, like, I want validation. I want people

Unknown Speaker 1:18:55

to tell me, man,

Unknown Speaker 1:18:56

I want people to tell me I look great. I want people to tell me I'm doing a great job. I want people to be like, how does she do it all, you know? But I'm like, No, you can't have it. And that was when my mental health started. That's when I started working on my mental health. I see. So you asked me how I meant how it's doing, it's more so that I've been stable. So now I've been trying to improve it. I see. It's like, I'm working on putting myself in uncomfortable situations, because I want to be, I want to know that I can get myself out of that. Right. And I've had challenges with school around exam time, was really when I reached my lowest point I would say it's just when I question everything, and that's when I step back and have some really good friends and you know, my sibling and really good support system at say, that just lets me know they're all tools. My tool kit. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't have reached out a couple years ago to my friends just been like, you know what, I actually don't think I'm going to do well. Mostly I just be like, Oh, yeah, like I'm studying like, it's fine. And I was just like, I don't think I'm going to do well cuz How about you help me out, like what's your study plan? Or just being like, having friends to be like, you know what, I don't think you should study while you're eating food, I think you should just eat and maybe we should just talk right? Or like, maybe we should just sit down and go extra or like, maybe we should go exercise after we leave the library. So it's been utilizing things for my toolkit. And that's taken years to build, but I think it's a journey. And I think what I'm working on most right now is, I think a lot of people working on this but it's mindfulness. And, and I've been working on it by you know, by removing social media ever allows me to stay more in the moment. Love it. So that was one thing and then I'm trying to I'm doing these like 12 habits of the year situation, okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:46

And I'm trying to work on instill 12 new habits New Year,

Unknown Speaker 1:20:49

not instill 12 new habits, but try different things out and maybe stick with one or two of them. Okay, by the end of the year. Yeah, and this month was no electronics and no easy Entertainment while eating and putting the TV on or putting the TV on pulling your phone out watching a YouTube video? No, you just got to sit there and eat your food.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:12

But you know what, though it's it's so tempting to just plop down on the couch or whatever or dinner table and have the TV going on in the background or scrolling through your phone while you're eating because it's both eating kind of a mindless task. Yeah. Why don't you fill it with a little bit more mindless stuff on your electronic device? But that's so interesting, because it's like, be present even in just eating the meal. Yeah, and just enjoy it and just disconnect for those 510 20 minutes or whatever having a meal.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:38

And then, I think so I mentioned way earlier. I don't know how long we've been talking. I don't know. So I said in undergrad, I was told I have this generalized anxiety disorder and you know, I made it a part of my identity. A big thing that I did near the end of that degree was I was like, No, this is a state that I am sometimes In, but it is temporary. Yep. And I no longer associate those words with my identity. I now say I am feeling anxious. I see when I'm feeling anxious, but I don't let it roll me. I dictate how long I will be. I know how to get myself out of those states. I know things that put me into that state, but it's not who I am.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:23

Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:24

It's easy for me to become like that. If I don't take care of myself, and I, you know, I know my like, I love habits. I'm a person of routine and I love having like, you know, checklists, like, I know what will keep me away from there and I know things that will put me towards being more anxious. So it's, it's not that I should never be anxious. You know, I think some people think they should never be stressed. I think there's like a healthy amount of stress you should have. I also think there's some things that are okay to be anxious about, which is something that took me you know, being anxious near exam time is normal. I shouldn't because

Unknown Speaker 1:22:56

you care about the

Unknown Speaker 1:22:58

results you care because it's you know, I think this is another one. It's like depression is like always worrying about the things that happened in the past and anxiety is a worry of the future.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:07

Okay, yeah. And I was gonna share something like that I think Mel Robbins and if you know Mel Robbins and author as well, but she said that anxiety is not an identity piece. It's not, you're not an anxious person that's that doesn't define a person. But it's the habit of worrying that that person has. And I thought because you said you're a creature of habit. So you perhaps in certain ways, you have a habit of worrying about things, and just removing that habit or fixing that habit will help. Right.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:34

And like I want to say that there are people who are, who suffer with mental health issues. And, you know, this is just what it is for me. Like it's it's this isn't the same for everybody. But this is what I needed in my life. And this is how I needed to talk to myself. This is the self talk that I needed to have about anxiety with myself to not only function but to like progress as you were saying and develop as a person and This isn't exactly what everyone else might be going through. But this is what it was for me, that's really know. So it's, it's not a part of my identity. I am an anxious person who could put it in my personality, like if you have to summarize me. But that's also because I love doing things in certain ways. So something else that I'm learning is just like letting go. Knowing that some things, you have things in your life that are in your control, but then things that aren't in your control, you need to be a little more eased up about it. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:24:27

absolutely. accepting that there are going to be things that are out of your control. I think that's a lot of it. Yeah, yeah. Just allowing it to happen and then making decisions around it right. What would you say to somebody who is in a position where you're at right now where they're, you know, pursuing a passion, a career path, perhaps, but they have to make big decisions, like, do I move on from our relationship? Do I leave the country? Do I leave my friends behind? What would you say to somebody who is struggling with that decision right now?

Unknown Speaker 1:25:00

I would say spend a lot of time reflecting, I would say, spend so much time with just yourself that you become uncomfortable with yourself, I think, learn yourself and I think that takes time. But I think when you know yourself, you also know the things and you have to be honest with yourself. You have to there's like a reality you paint for yourself. And then there's your real reality. You know, there's like, this is ideal self, you always want to be but you have to realize you're not that there yet. And then so you need to be like, Who am I as a real person? What are my flaws? What am I What am I things I'm good at. And I take things personally, like I'm working on that. I think I take things very personally, but like you need to realize these things, but you also need to realize different sections of your life like your interpersonal relationships, your health, your career, and you need to sit there and be and know things that you will be fine with. No things that you're willing to leave because you know, you can find it again. And then sometimes you just need to look a couple of years down the road and just ask yourself, not just Will I be happy because I think happiness is just one thing. I don't think I think when people say I just want to be happy, I think there's actually a lot more to life than just, you can't always be happy. And that's another false expectation people set for themselves is like, you know, if they're feeling upset, they're like, oh, like, why am I you know, you, you're not meant to be constantly in a state of happiness. you're meant to be sad, some days and whatnot. It's more like, well, I feel content with my life. Well, I feel like I have done enough. Well, I feel like when I sit here, and maybe if I'm all alone, will I feel okay with that? Well, I have lived up to my potential, what is my potential and just where do I see myself? If I want to have a family? Where do I see my what role will I play? You know, and how do I want to raise my children or what are the fundamentals that I want to take an into their upbringing, and how will I mirror those are so Those are some big questions I was asking I was reading a lot of these like self help.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:03

Yeah and and exactly what I was going to ask you about right now was what it sounds to me is a lot of deep digging is what's required for somebody who has not i'm not saying you but people out there who doesn't who don't know how to do that deep digging and creating an understanding that getting that self awareness. What would you say to them? How can they like you said, read some self help books, but what kind of strategy would you say okay, I need to do some deep digging. I know I need to do it. How can I get started?

Unknown Speaker 1:27:35

Hmm, good question. Now I read some self help books. I don't think there were the things that helped me. Okay. I think I think this put too much in one book, you know, like, and then you get really overwhelmed, right? And you start off on this, like, enthusiastic one week journey where you're like, I'm going to do everything this book tells me Yeah, and then you know, it dies off. I really think it's internal. I really think it's this intrinsic motivation, which everybody You can get all the help you want from external sources. It comes from a point from within. When you decide you want to make a change in your life or when you decide I need change, so you need to first understand that, like, Are you okay with where you are? Yeah. Or do you want to grow? Because some people are okay with where they are in they don't want to grow and that's perfectly okay. Yeah. So understanding like, do I want to develop as a person and continue to grow my character or is am I happy here, I think is the first question you asked. Yeah. And then I think it would just be doing things that make you uncomfortable.

Unknown Speaker 1:28:35

I love that. I

Unknown Speaker 1:28:36

think I used to run away from uncomfortableness and I still do at times you know, some social situations will make me really uncomfortable. But I've learned this from my brother, but now I put myself into them. Just so I can learn how I'll react Yeah. But you your true self. I feel like comes out in those moments where you learn more about yourself from being like why was I acting

Unknown Speaker 1:28:58

like today? Why did react that Way, why did your situation? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:29:01

it's just asking yourself these questions and just asking like, do I treat my loved ones? The same way I treat other people? Or like, do I even treat my loved ones? Right? Yeah, you know, am I giving them as much as they're giving me like I those are questions I especially in a relationship, you know, you can be the certain personal relationship your whole life and you may never recognize it like, maybe you're the person who always just gets and gets but never gives Yeah, yeah, no, I don't think that's going to end well but like for that person for that person, but like I think these are things you just have to you have to ask yourself all these questions. How would I say you do it? I honestly I don't really?

Unknown Speaker 1:29:37

I don't I'm not there's no one answer. And I know there isn't one and yeah, but what I'm hearing from what you're telling me is that you got to do the time, when you know that there's something that you need to change. You've got to do the time you got to ask yourself the right questions. You gotta ask the tough questions about yourself. You got to put yourself in an uncomfortable place to really understand who you really are and I think being uncovered is really eye opening. You would probably never guessed this, but I was a very, very shy person growing up. And people like no whatever, that's bullshit. But having a one on one conversation like this, I've come to realize over time that this is exactly what I do this is this is where I thrive, I love communicating and just like learning about people, and I would have never been able to, you know, step out of my comfort zone had I not experienced certain things in my life that I was forced to be in a in a position where I was one on one with somebody, someone that was more influential than me or, you know, not a celebrity but somebody who had, you know, clout that, you know, that was very important. And I think that's a very important point that you make is being comfortable with being uncomfortable. Yeah, so my next question for you is, what situation Give me one situation that makes you feel awkward. And why

Unknown Speaker 1:30:59

this has been happening Recently, more so than or maybe you've just come to realize it more now it's when people go into like, say, a store or go into a situation where perhaps a person doesn't know my background and whatnot, and they undervalue me, or they, you know, predisposed their judgment and like, they paint me to be someone that I'm not. And that really hurts because then I feel like I need to prove myself. It's you know, I often people think I'm people paint me out to be not perhaps as educated as I am, or they don't know my background, because, you know, I'm just a girl, right? I'm quite young. I have a young face. I always look very, very teenage like, I've been told.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:47

And it's,

Unknown Speaker 1:31:50

I just always feel like I'm like, oh, like, why doesn't this person like, I feel like I need to show them my degrees or like, I feel like I need to prove to them by like, blurting all this knowledge out so they will take me seriously Um, I get really uncomfortable in those situations because I'm in this conflict in my head. Yeah, between being like, you shouldn't care about what this person thinks about you because your loved ones, they value you and people that value you and respect you, they know who you are. So you shouldn't have to worry. But then my other thing is that no, like, I want to prove this person wrong. You need to change your ignorant ways of life. Like, I can be an Indian 23 year old female and I could have been like, I'm, I grew up in Surrey, you know, so like, you know, so like, right, maybe I'm not doing what you think I'm doing. I'm doing something completely different, right? But it's like, do I need to prove this? Do I need to like have a screaming challenge with you and just like, go at war with you? Or do I just like be at peace with the fact that this is a part of life? Yeah. And you know, you are going to be misjudged and your characters gonna be miscalculated at times. And you move on. Yep, for sure. That's when I'm most uncomfortable hosting like I like have these Oh, when I walk away from conversations like that, I'm like, Oh, I think I tried to prove like, I try to like one up myself. I was like, myself, but at the same time was trying to hold back. And it's so uncomfortable. I get it. Just so like, it's just like, I'm not confident myself in those moments. Yeah, there are moments where I'm confident myself and I still don't know how to go about that.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:22

Yeah, I think that's interesting. You say that I'm just while you're telling me this, I'm applying it to you know, a situation perhaps that I've been in, I think, because as a personal trainer and being immersed in this fitness world for a while now. You see a lot of people that are whether it's a commercial gym, or even in our gym, that it's so tempting because I my role as a trainer, I'm like, man, I want to correct or I want to, you know, instill some knowledge. But it's, it's it takes some maturity or practice understanding that you don't always need to be that person that tells them you know, something better or something to do, like, unless they're going to hurt themselves. I mean, that's almost a duty that we have to just, you know, prevent, you know that from happening, but just to be able to step back and say okay, well You know what this person is having another conversation with another person in the gym. And it sounds like they have some understanding, and just being able to see about a step back and say, This is not my place, just right. It's not necessary for me. I don't need this doesn't make me feel any better that in fact, as you were saying, it actually almost gratifies me to be able to just step back and not say anything, because I've come to accept that. It's not always about that trying to be or exert knowledge perhaps to other people, you know, what I mean? Where, where you're in an industry where that's all you do is exerting on, you know, express knowledge to help people but to just step back and say, It's okay,

Unknown Speaker 1:34:34

I've been on the receiving end, like unsolicited tips and advice from male lifters while I'm in the gym, in commercial gyms was so commonplace, you know, and it's just like, so how do you deal with that? How do you personally like how do you be like, Okay, this isn't my place, like, what do you tell? Is there an internal

Unknown Speaker 1:34:54

conversation that I have? Yeah, I think that's a good question. I just, I just understand now that It's just from an interpersonal perspective, I just don't feel like it's my place. I mean, even in like finances, for example, I was in banking for so many years, I hear someone talking about, you know, an investment or something like that, or talking about mortgages and the bank that they're with, and I'm just so like, it's so tempting for me to be just like, I'm gonna jump in and just, you know, throw in some, you know, you know, dropping some knowledge here and there, but it's like, it's not my conversation. And it's not even a feeling that I need to exert knowledge. It's just, I need to know that. It's a conversation that having with other people, and it's not my place to interject. Right? And so that's why I'm just like, I'm just gonna let it slide. They're not hurting themselves. I think that's my only filter, especially in the gym. It's like, well, they're not hurting themselves. I'm just gonna let it go. Right? It's totally fine. And as a group fitness coach, you're on a microphone and you're telling everybody, okay, here's proper form. Whether they listen to you or not, that's up to them, but I can tell you right now, a simple movement, let's say it's one side of simplement, let's say a deadlift, just a few mechanics there, right? with dumbbells. I can show you multiple times, you can be in my class multiple times, and I'll show you every single time consistently how to do a deadlift. But if you don't, listen, you'll always do it the same wrong way. And they get to a point where I just, you know, let it go. Because, you know, they're not they're not absorbing that knowledge. And I think it's, it would be overstepping to continue to push, push, push. I think that's how I've taken it. And so anyway, that's my perspective on

Unknown Speaker 1:36:29

that's, that's a good one. I think that applies to so many walks of life, like, you know, I think I my role in life is a move forward and be an advocate for health. But health can be a lot of things. And recently, I have a lot of family members who asked me like, what should I eat, like, what's healthy eating? And, you know, you could lay out the nicest plan for that course, but like, it's taken me time but now I don't get upset anymore. You know, when I'm like, you're not following this, but I spent so much time trying to teach you but I'm like, you know what, that's not I did my duties, but it's not like in I'm not supposed to follow you up and hold your hand and I'm not going to get mad at you and teach you by disciplining, because that's not my role. Yeah. So it's like you sort of like you do your part. If you do need to and get step back after that. You'd be like, I need to take care of myself.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:14

Yep. Yeah, that's it. Totally. Yeah. So I want you to listen to some other questions now, not necessarily specific to you and you know, your your your life path, but I want to dig a bit deeper now. So who was the most influential, influential person in your life growing up, I

Unknown Speaker 1:37:30

have to say, my brother, so vicious, a lot of people know him as Vish

Unknown Speaker 1:37:36

influential in ways that he was a role model and a mentor when I needed it the most. And when I had

Unknown Speaker 1:37:46

when I felt like I had nobody around me and nobody to support me through things that I was going through, it was him that I was able to model my life after and you know, he introduced me to a lot of things My life and then, you know, he'd introduced me to them and let me then pave my own path through them. So, you know, he introduced me how to just hold a barbell. And like took me first one day. Yeah, and took me to the gym with him back in the day because he knew I wasn't swimming any more competitively in university. So he knew I needed to get back into fitness. And he's like, let me take you to the gym and show you the basics. And, you know, for me, that turned into my own thing and ended up competing in powerlifting competitions. And similarly with nutrition, you know, I learned so much from him, and I'm such a sponge for knowledge, but I didn't have a lot of role models to grow up and I wasn't around a lot of people that I would look up could look up to. So to have somebody like that, who tried his best to, you know, be that person for me to I'd say the most influential person would be my brother. That's awesome.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:53

Yeah. And I figured out that would be the answer. No, I guess.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:57

I owe him so much. And you My mom was a fabulous person too. But I would not say the impact was as great. When I think about like the times I've been through, I'd say he was the one who just put his hand out whether he wanted to or not. It was just he was there.

Unknown Speaker 1:39:15

I think it's amazing to have that kind of relationship. Yeah, we've talked about it quite a bit, but I think it's awesome. And I admire that about you, too. Thank you. If you met your younger self today, what would make them happy and sad about you? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 1:39:31

interesting. my younger self is meeting me today. So does she still have that mindset that she had when she was younger? What would make her really happy is where I'm at.

Unknown Speaker 1:39:43

in multiple walks of life, what would probably make her a little upset is that things have sacrificed and let go of

Unknown Speaker 1:39:54

to to be here. I used to have a lot more creative outlets. I see. I used to do a lot of

Unknown Speaker 1:40:01

You know, art and painting and I used to be in drama. And, you know, I used to do things that weren't so focused on my career, I don't say, and it's been hard to do those now. I just don't have it. That's not true. I could find the time for them. I just don't ever make the time to have those creative outlets as much. I think she'd be upset or sad about those. But she'd be really happy about like, how I'm doing. Yeah, cuz it's been a long time.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:30

Yeah. I love that. I love that. I think it's I think it's important that you acknowledge that there are creative outlets and things outside of just career that you know, you've always had in your in your life and now they've had to take out you know, perhaps be put on the back burner, but that they're, you know, still things that are important to you and would be important to your younger self.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:47

Absolutely. Yeah. You know, I have some cousins and friends who are doing things with design and and I just cannot imagine like when they tell me about their lives, I'm just in awe because I wouldn't even know where to start. Yeah. Some of these projects they undertake are so independent and are so you know, there's no clear cut guideline to where it's going to end up. Whereas I've taken a road which is pretty much like laid out, it's like you did this, this this and you will get you get a good you'll get something out of it. Whereas there on these undecided road there's like, you can be a great actor or like, you know, you could be great at dancing and ballet but yet you still may not have, you know, your future is undecided

Unknown Speaker 1:41:27

and uncertain.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:28

So I'm, I'm so incredibly proud of them. But it's just like to put in so much work for an decided future is like, that scares me. That's something I could never do. So to see people do that and do so well in it and to continually put an effort into something like that is incredible.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:46

Yeah, that's, that's just so crazy, because I'm on the opposite end of that spectrum, whereas I find creative outlets, perhaps maybe one day will lead to, you know, whatever was financial success and things like because that's what you know, fuels people whereas You're on the end of Okay, well, if you do x y Zed, you'll get you know this result. And you admire the opposite the creative outlets and uncertainty, whereas I admire the ability to follow the set path to get to a certain outcome. Because I've always felt like that was tough for me, like, sure academics, you gotta pout, you know, graduate high school, get university degree and things like that, I get it. Almost like, those are necessities of life now, but to, to kind of pave your own way, has always been kind of, I think, in my mind the way I've wanted to pursue a career, like I've taken, you know, three different careers now ever since I started working, and now it's like, no, where's this podcast? Gonna take me? I don't know. But I'm doing the things that are fun for me. I love it. And it's my creative outlet like you were saying. So we'll see.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:48

Yeah, well, I kudos. I just think that's so scary. I think that's so scary. You're like, well, I'm gonna try doing this thing. And I've never done it before. I don't know what it's gonna get me. Whereas like, I'm quite safe on that. Like I do things and I know there are risks and rewards I love doing like a risk reward like calculations in my head I love like, so doing something like this where you're like, I don't even know if I'm going to put in a bunch of energy and effort. I'm going to get all this equipment. I'm going to set out time in my life to do this, but I have no idea what my return will be. That is just incredible to me, for someone to be able to do that. And you know, just Yeah, that's it. I went I hope to do something like that soon in my life. But you know, it's tough.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:28

Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's like,

Unknown Speaker 1:43:30

you know, like you're doing it right now. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:32

I love this. I love this. Honestly, I could again, I could talk to you for hours now. But let's go. Let's go to the next one. If you are sorry, what is something you think everyone should experience in their lifetime?

Unknown Speaker 1:43:44

Okay, I think

Unknown Speaker 1:43:48

the high I guess that's just the layman's term we can use for this, that you get from compete from completing and doing well in your own books. In a athletic competition, okay is unlike any other to push yourself to a physical point. And you know, it's your body and you've discipline, you've done discipline training and you've put yourself through this, whether it's to complete a marathon, a powerlifting, competition or triathlon, to see yourself through and cross that finish line, all the finish lines look different, but to know you've put in the word and it was an honest effort. And just like the feeling you feel, I think, is something everyone should experience once in their life. Because it was you Yeah, you know? And that's the beautiful thing about movement is it's just like you have to put in the work yourself. It's not like I don't I like there's like Jocko willings. And all of them talk about it a lot, but it's just like, you can be from any walk of life and you can be almost of any socio economic status, but it's like your ability to put yourself through This stuff, you know, it's a choice. It's like a daily choice you'll probably make. And in that moment in those sports, it doesn't matter where you come from, that's all that matters is what you're bringing on that competition

Unknown Speaker 1:45:11

and what you put into it and what you put into it. That's so true.

Unknown Speaker 1:45:14

And also to see it to the, to the, to the end, and to see what you've put in through it. And like, you know, obviously the people that you compete with and whatnot. But I think that type of competition, that healthy comp, it's a healthy amount of competition, and just the end result of how you feel. I think that's what's important. I think everyone has experienced that once in their life, just like how they feel after completing a competition and knowing that putting work into it, like whether it be a runner's high from competing 42 kilometers, whatever it may be, yeah, whether it be you know, your last deadlift, and just knowing

Unknown Speaker 1:45:52

you know, all of the work that you put in and now I've been able to crush whatever this is or this event,

Unknown Speaker 1:45:57

and you know, it doesn't always end well. Sometimes you might be disappointed. And then it's your choice whether like, you do a perspective thing. It's will I try again? Yeah. Or is this it for me? And if it's if for you, I don't think that's a bad thing, because at least you tried. You know, you put yourself out there and you did something. And like, hopefully you learn something. Yeah, totally. That would be the one thing I would hope everyone could experience. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Unknown Speaker 1:46:21

Yeah. Awesome.

Unknown Speaker 1:46:23

If you could fix one problem. What would it be?

Unknown Speaker 1:46:28


Unknown Speaker 1:46:30

I want to be a little realistic. And I feel like this. This affects this affects me personally. I'm communicating love it. I would just

Unknown Speaker 1:46:41

I think communicating rather than being passive aggressive, is something I'm learning. Okay. passive aggressive it you know, it's so easy. Yeah. And comfortable.

Unknown Speaker 1:46:53

And you feel like that's a habit perhaps or characteristic that you've the, you know, the that you have the You're trying to work on?

Unknown Speaker 1:47:01

Um, yeah, I have less so of it because of the people around me and my loved ones, they keep me in check. They're like, well, we have to talk about this. But it's just I think open communication is like, would be the solution that I'm looking for this problem. It's not so much passive aggressive, it's more just so if we could be more openly communicating with all our loved ones, yeah. And just telling them honestly, how we feel. Yeah, that's it, telling them honestly how we feel but also remembering that they're our loved ones. When we are telling them things we might be angry. But, you know, if you shout at someone, they're just going to shout back at you. Like, it's like, sort of realizing how am I going to word this like, yes, this is the temporary state of anger, but my significant other or my mom, or you know, whoever it may be, my friend isn't gonna be receptive. If I'm yelling at them. How about I like, take a couple of deep breaths. And then I try to explain like, Hey, I feel really upset by this, this this that happened. Can we please talk about it? rather than you know, sweeping it on? The carpet or coming up with your own assumptions I think we come up with we assume a lot of things in life. And I think that's what I'm looking for. Like, I think if we all work on being better communicators, it would make things so much easier. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean, I'm working on it.

Unknown Speaker 1:48:15

I think it's an ongoing process. I think communication is something that everyone could continue to work on constantly. I mean, I think I've made vast strides in improving it. I think I could continue to improve it. I think listening is a very important trade. I think communication is more listening should be more listening. And that's why I love doing this because I like to listen. So I hundred percent agree.

Unknown Speaker 1:48:38

Yeah. Listening is tough. Yeah, yeah, it is. You have to put your ego to the side. And sometimes realize like, this conversation actually isn't about me or like, it doesn't even have to end up being about me. Yeah, like I just need to keep you know, it's like when you turn a one up your friends problems. It's like, your friend wants a friend. So they come to you to tell you about their problems. But then you're like, Oh, you think You've had a shitty day. Let me tell you like that's yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:01

Oh, yeah, well, me too. Like, that's not what the person like

Unknown Speaker 1:49:04

you, they just wanted you to listen to them and like support them not. And that's so easy.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:09

It's true. It's true, because it's almost like you almost you throw that in there because you want to almost relate or empathize and I totally get it. I can see myself having done it a million times. But really, it's like, but I was telling you about my problem. Yeah, just listen. Yeah, it's not cool. Yeah, that's how you feel right? I get it. Yeah, for sure. I love that answer. By the way.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:30

What do you think makes a person most attractive?

Unknown Speaker 1:49:34

Wow. Hmm.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:39

So it has a lot to do with the personality. And I'm sure that's what you were getting at too. But I would say open ended question. Yeah. So for me, it's about a person's social intelligence. And I think a person's like some people are just charismatic when you meet them. You know what I mean? Like they just attracts energy.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:58


Unknown Speaker 1:49:58

give us energy and But I think it's like, a conglomeration of multiple things. It's about a person being caring, a person knowing themselves well enough that they able to listen to you and not have to constantly. You know, I think that's an insecurity thing. When you speak on top of others or like I, that's what I've come to realize is like, when you feel the need to prove yourself to others, it's an insecurity. For sure. Um, so being finding someone who's like, so true to themselves, who may accept that they accept their insecurities, but they're able to just like, listen to you like a good listener, a good communicator. And more so than anyone. Oh, I found it. I found it. I was looking deep in my brain, where is it? What is okay? It's someone who wants to work on themselves, someone who's always willing to better themselves. And that goes so far. It's just so attractive to me, because it's just like, you're in an argument with them or say something and they'll just be like, Well, yeah, they might be upset for a little but then they'll be like, well, how can I be better? You know, right, from a career point. It's just like, okay, I want to move I want to I want to keep being better at the job that I do. It's from like a family perspective. Like I want to be a better parent than I am right now. I want to be a better husband. I want to be a better wife. I think that like, itch to continuously improve yourself and self improvement with a fine line of fap and find balance between being grateful for what you have for sure, but that is really attractive. I love that.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:26

Yeah, I love that. So on that scale then if with that attractiveness, where are you on that skill? Without a attractive trade? myself? Yeah. Wow. What are we going to attractive Are you on that's on with that?

Unknown Speaker 1:51:43

What's her What's her What's her skill? It's like a one to 10 one to 10 I would say I'm at seven and a half hoping to be at like an eight okay the end on it.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:58

I love be loving company. I love being comfy but it's just like, being like, pause, stop. I'm way too comfy right now. Like, I have been in this rut of my life and I'm too young. Let's keep. Let's keep moving towards something better. Yeah, you know, sit in Campinas for a bit, but then like, continue forward.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:17

I was gonna say cuz you gotta give yourself time to enjoy it too, right? Yeah, that's the other thing. Love it. Yeah. Okay. So what are a few non negotiable characteristics Someone must have in order for you to want to date them.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:29

non negotiable character. You gotta

Unknown Speaker 1:52:31

have them. They gotta have.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:35


Unknown Speaker 1:52:37

That's really tough. Yeah. non negotiable. That's like, I'm putting my foot down.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:42

Yeah. If you don't do this, or don't have that.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:46

I think it's hard to just like, I feel like I would come off as somebody who's very entitled by saying ignorance. I'm like, they can't be an ignorant person. Because, like, I mean, I'm going to ask you this. How much do you think ignorance is with like being uneducated about topic. How much rephrase like how much? Like, is someone truly being ignorant? Or is it just that they're uneducated about a topic? In some in

Unknown Speaker 1:53:08

I think that word can be used synonymously with being an educated with a specific topic. I mean, I I certainly do that I feel like I'm ignorant to the medicine world. I don't understand it in any level, close to what you understand that. But being able to acknowledge that ignorance, I think is what's important. I can say, hey, by the way, I don't know anything about this topic. I'll put it to you to tell me, right. And I think that's what ignorance is, to me versus I'm an educated, being educated is almost like an a desire to not be to be educated or understanding of that topic. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:44

Okay, so that was, that really helped me figure out what my non negotiable was by giving you that answer. It's, um, people who are close minded, okay. Um, that's just, you know, close mindedness. And I would say just

Unknown Speaker 1:54:01

inability to Yeah, I guess that goes on long with closed mindedness. I was going to say, an inability to have an open mind when someone presents something that like, you may have never experienced in your life, you know? And just like saying no to that it's just like a complete No. And I think people who don't have control of their own life, like people who have some sort of a routine to their life, it's very attractive to me to be like, you know what you're doing, I guess its purpose. I guess I don't really I think having a purpose is important. I think some people haven't found their purpose. But as long as you're honest with yourself that at least you're searching for one. I think that's important.

Unknown Speaker 1:54:39

Interesting. I like the word purpose, because I think we all have a purpose. And the search for that is what takes us and navigates us through life. And if you're not searching for it, and you're just kind of aimlessly wandering around, I think you're absolutely agree with you that well, then what's going on?

Unknown Speaker 1:54:54

Yeah, because what are you doing? Absolutely, because at this point, I feel like I'm still I'm young, and I feel like The people I surround myself with is very important. So as long as I'm surrounding myself with people, and I keep company of people that are open minded, and, you know, a lot of us haven't found our purpose, but you know, they're searching, you're putting an active effort to be like, I don't know what it is, but I'm not okay with this either. I'm not okay with being in this moment. I'm, I'm still gonna keep trying. And it's like, just the act of not giving up on that and just, you know, continuously putting in some effort and not being closed minded while you're at it. I see.

Unknown Speaker 1:55:30

Yeah, well, those are that's a non canonical, I would say those are

Unknown Speaker 1:55:32

non negotiables. I feel I love it. Yeah, I feel like those are pretty decent.

Unknown Speaker 1:55:36